Kiselev not to be blinded by offers and conducts a number of historical Parallels — because "Maxim about what history knows no subjunctive mood, does not mean that we are not this story needs to learn and she learn".
About who and how these lessons learned were discussed at the Vilnius forum of Russian intellectuals, and then held in the capital of Lithuania, Forum of free Russia. E. Kiselev was one of the participants of these meetings.
- At the Vilnius forum of Russian intellectuals voiced the idea that Russia can help by helping in the first place Ukraine. So in Russia there have been some changes, the situation should be improved in Ukraine that the Ukrainians have healed better, that will be an example for Russians. What do you think about this?
- In my opinion, this is a bit idealistic, I would even say, starry-eyed approach. Although I don't want to look smarter than others. I talked about this at the time. It seemed to me that the success of Pro-European democratic project in Ukraine could serve as a very shining example to neighboring Russia. But here immediately arises a lot of different kind of obstacles. And who will tell the Russians that in the Ukraine started a positive change. Look, ordinary people who come, ties are not broken, continue to come from Moscow to Kiev. They go absolutely overloaded with propaganda clichés, stereotypes, myths that circulate proprietory Russian propaganda.
People go scared and surprised that in Kiev is not hunger, public transport, metro works, that the streets of many cars, including expensive, by the way. Shops, restaurants — everything works. No bonfires, which supposedly heated by hungry and homeless people, no "Right sector", no, "redobandire". In General, Kiev is living a peaceful life of a normal European city. Yes, there are difficulties — inflation, increased prices, decreased income citizens, stopped many businesses, the economic, the recession is so. But basically how people live. This is a separate issue, but I am absolutely sure that when stabilized the situation in the economy when economic growth, and I think he will start this year, it is clear that the economy has fallen so low that the economic growth which the country promises the current government, the piece is conditional, but out of the hole the economy starts to get out, and sooner or later, I'm sure, the country will enter the final straight, figuratively speaking. And sometime in 20-30 years will probably be ready to apply for membership in the European Union. But with the current scenario, the regime which exists in Russia, the Russians won't know.
Therefore, the success of democratic reforms, all the reforms that need to happen in Ukraine is important for Ukraine itself. Alas, Russia doesn't find out. While the mode is not changed until you changed the game rules, Russian citizens just will not let know about it.
- What do you think, when there was a turning point, if this was in policy of Putin, the Kremlin? After all, not so long ago discussed the issue of visa-free regime between the EU and Russia negotiations on several areas of cooperation.
- First of all, not all, thank God, in Europe and America advocated increased cooperation with Russia. Fortunately, were the "troubadours of the cold war", I say this with irony, "finished hawks", "Russophobes" who said that this regime, with Russia things to be impossible. And sooner or later we are convinced of this. I kept telling me the first year of Putin's presidency. You remember how George W. Bush looked in the first meeting with Putin at his eyes and saw that this guy can be dealt with. And I, for instance, from our side before Bush looked the guy straight in the eye and realized that nothing except the Lieutenant Colonel of the KGB did not see.
- But still many of those who are willing to deal...
- And in 30-e years in America were those who believed that it is possible and necessary to deal with Hitler, supporters of the policy of appeasement, the so-called appeasement, and in the end Hitler in 1941, after pearl Harbor, was the initiator of the Declaration of war. He hoped that by declaring war on America, it will push Japan to become more active, including against Russia, the far East, would are making its entry into the war against the Soviet Union. It was December, the German troops were defeated near Moscow, and in a sense, Hitler himself contributed to the fact that the U.S. entered the war.
And so, you know, and German Chronicles, and the films of Leni Riefenstahl, and German Newspapers Goebbels before December 1941, America was, I think at the time to look and read. So I repeat — supporters of realpolitik in Europe has always been at all times more than enough, so-called sober pragmatists. Remember the late 60's-early 70-ies — Willy Brandt, Helmut Schmidt and other artists of the so-called ostpolitik, which, in fact, have made the legitimacy of the East German Honecker regime, the legitimization of the partition of Berlin and stuff, stuff, stuff. All of these actually they extended 10 years the life of a Communist regime in the USSR. Try now to criticize the late Willy Brandt, or Schmidt's late somewhere in the company of politicians, political scientists-the traditionalists in Germany.
You would declare there almost the enemy of mankind, almost finished a staunch reactionary and an accomplice of fascism. The current Putin regime is a threat to peace, the conflict between Russia and the West has a civilizational framework, Putin's Russia is a threat to European civilization, and the centre of this threat is now in Eastern Ukraine. This gigantic territory with a population of several million people is not controlled by anyone, which with the filing of Putin, with his help or connivance, and actually using, the active participation and subsequent acquiescence has turned into such a black hole almost in the center of Europe. Less than a thousand kilometers from there to the border of European countries.
Now we spend time, money and some diplomatic efforts to resolve the situation around a tiny little, located on the edge of Europe, Transnistria — Transnistria. "The big deal", and here you have a huge territory where a population of several million people and where there is a tremendous amount of military equipment, heavy weapons including. I'm not exaggerating — hundreds of thousands of tons of ammunition, explosives. Where there are semi-criminal organization, which eventually will turn into a completely criminal gangs, where guns, anarchy and criminality, where black money walks? There will be drugs, there will be trafficking and from there it will flow sooner or later in Europe. And it's much closer than Syria or Libya. And no need to swim across a stormy Mediterranean sea in winter, to cross the Strait of Messina. Putin's regime is a threat, and this threat should be countered, this threat must be contained. So, as it did at the peak of the cold war. Cold war 2.0, hybrid, she's coming. We should not delude ourselves to say that we face a new cold war. We are facing a threat of a new hot war.
- Why in your opinion, as noted on the forum in Vilnius, Lilia Shevtsova, the West is drifting or asleep in this situation?
- There are times. There are many problems, in one short interview is impossible all of these problems affect. In my opinion, there is a lack of leadership. We came to the conclusion that the elections in USA may be that the President will choose from a set of "trump vs Sanders". Imagine that the charge against Hillary Clinton in violation of the secrecy that it enjoyed illegally inadequate server that sent the message consecrate, in flagrant violation of the rules is confirmed. I paint a real scenario.
An investigation is already underway and this topic is written, are the American media. Suppose that it grows like hillairet. And she is not able to be nominated for the post of a candidate of the Democratic party, and will Sanders V. trump, and this is, excuse me, screwed. This diagnosis of America's political system, which has degraded largely because with the end of the cold war has created the illusion that there is a problem, you can forget about that. There was a period, relatively speaking, when there was a contingent of hope, there was every reason that Russia will develop in the right direction.
These hopes were dashed in 2000 when President Putin and when the construction si Putin regime. And, I say negotiated because it is a mode in which no effect of the Russian Constitution, when the Constitution's institutions and processes, which are declared there, there is no separation of powers, independent courts, there is no declared rights of citizens, etc. And even then you had to worry. And unfortunately, the West itself changed. When an opponent when there is a goal, when there is a fight, you keep yourself in shape. When there is competition, including perceived competition multiple systems, you are preparing the next generation of players. As in football is highly competitive Spanish League, England.
It is clear that the coaches of the top teams and even teams of middle peasants cultivate the next generation of those who will play in the first team. And in America, as, indeed, in Europe it is not. Well, there's Angela Merkel, who with all due respect, still a pale shadow of Margaret Thatcher. But as said, we need sedrine and Goldeneyes and such Pushkins and lermontovs in politics, ragani and hatchery today. Their absence explains much that is in the West. All I'm saying does not apply to Lithuania. Dalia Grybauskaite is a rare positive exception from the rules of which I speak. Thank God, work traditions, rules, institutions